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Lord_rock Underboss
 2045 Posts



 Portland OR
 | | 10/22/2008 3:57 PM |
| How are they going? I know we have few options at this stage but did anyone find something way way killer cool?
| | Rock Bottom Pricing: Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
| Lord_rock Underboss
 2045 Posts



 Portland OR
 | | 10/28/2008 5:46 PM |
| | is anyone out there at all??? | | Rock Bottom Pricing: Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 11/03/2008 11:06 AM |
| Hello, is there anybody in there? Just nod if you can hear me. Is there anyone at home?
Haven't seen any barbarian builds. I assume that since barbarians are confirmed for the PH2 that most people would rather wait a couple of months than invest a ton of energy into trying to create their own. | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| Rochtun Sneak
 98 Posts


 Beavercreek, Ohio
 | | 11/03/2008 7:07 PM |
| | I will be DMing a game Friday night and one of my friends made a Barbarian to try it out. I'm not sure what race yet. The Barbarian sounds pretty wicked. An encounter power with 3[W] damage is gonna hurt if he hits. I'll let you know Friday night or Saturday morning how the Barbarian works out. | | | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 11/03/2008 7:28 PM |
| An encounter power that deals 3[w] + Strength is too good especially at 1st level. Fighters don't get an encounter power that deals that kind of damage until 6th level (halfway through heroic tier).
Maybe something like 3[w] + Strength with a -1 (or -2) to the attack roll would balance out. This is assuming that barbarians function as strikers rather than as defenders (which makes sense). Give up some precision for a big thwack---that definitely sounds like a barbarian. | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| Rochtun Sneak
 98 Posts


 Beavercreek, Ohio
 | | 11/04/2008 4:02 AM |
| | Zenthrus.............I agree with you there. That's alot of damage being dealt from a first level character. The Barbarian does have a penalty though for that attack. All attacks against him (after he does his Avalanche Strike encounter power) are at a +4 until his next turn. On losing 4 AC, they will be pretty easy to hit. At first level, the normal AC will probably be 15 or maybe 16. Drop that to 11 or 12 and just about any monster will hit. If the Barbarian is one on one, it may be worth it. If there are multiple monsters attacking him/her, the Barbarian will probably go down. | | | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 11/04/2008 8:43 AM |
| I'm not sure the benefit outweighs the penalty. Compare that to the Ranger's ability to attack every opponent within a burst 1 radius. Theoretically the ranger could deal 1[w] to 8 different creatures (1[w] each if every attack hit). The Ranger has no penalty for his encounter power while the barbarian would effectively be a corpse if the 3[w] didn't drop his target. Even 1 AC in 4e is a pretty big deal. Losing 4AC for any power is probably not worth it.
This kind of balancing act is why I'm glad I don't design games for a living  | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| Rochtun Sneak
 98 Posts


 Beavercreek, Ohio
 | | 11/06/2008 5:59 PM |
| I talked to my buddy and this is what his Barbarian will look like for our game on friday.
Human Barbarian, Hide Armor, AC 15, Feats: Weapon Proficiency (Executioners Axe if I remember right) and either Durable (for the 2 extra Healing Surges) or Toughness (for the extra 5 HP). He said he'll probably go with Durable due to number of surges spent per encunter. He'll have 29 HP which he will probably go through fast with a 15 AC.
We figure he'll probably spend 5 or so HS per encounter. At 7 HP/surge (plus the cleric bonus he'll get for 1 or 2 of the surges). 1 or 2 from the cleric, one from a Second Wind and 2 or 3 during the five minute rest. That gives him two encounters per day and he's out of HS. The third encounter that day is gonna be tough.
The Barabarian has some cool features and looks fun to play. Shifting through an enemy (shift two and go through an enemy square) may come in handy. We'll find out tomorrow night. I'll let you know how the Barbarian works out. Stats below. STR - 18 CON - 14 DEX - 14 INT - 10 WIS - 13 CHA - 8 | | | |
|  Most Edumacated zenthrus Warlord
 5132 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 11/06/2008 8:35 PM |
| | Keep an eye on how it looks compared to a Ranger (similar roles). If the barb is dropping much more damage than a ranger or rogue could it's probably overpowered (unless it also has some significant drawbacks but 4e isn't big on drawbacks). | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
| tahjn Sneak
 142 Posts




 | | 11/07/2008 11:49 AM |
| Well I played a Warforged Barbarian in a LFR game and he wasn't exactly what I would call overpowered. He did not go down at all but I think that has a lot to do with the fact that the encounters in LFR adventures are horrendously easy for a semi-competent group. The best power that the Barbarian has at first level and for his entire career is going to be Recuperating Strike. Getting those temp hits every round helps to keep him up even though he suffers from a slightly lower AC.
As far as his damage output vs. the ranger, rogue and warlock, he does slightly more it would seem but at the cost of having to be in melee and not have a good way to get out without taking oppurtunity attacks. | | | |
| Rochtun Sneak
 98 Posts


 Beavercreek, Ohio
 | | 11/08/2008 7:03 AM |
| Time for the update...............the Human Barbarian lived. He was a fun addition to the party. Just like suspected, he did go down two of the three encounters. As for dishing out damage, the average was mid to high teens. A couple of powers did around high twenty's. I didn't think the Barbarian was "broken" when it came to it's role. I saw tahjn thought the Brabarian did slighty more than the other strikers. I felt he did about 30% or so less than the rogue, 20% or so less than the warlock and about the same as a ranger. The warlock, ranger and especially rogue are broken in my opinion, but that's for another thread.
The Barbarian's powers worked well and I thought were played well. The temp HP gained when dropping a monster definately helped. He did soak up a lot of damage due to the low AC. Especially after his encounter power (losing 4 AC). Between healing from the cleric and temp HP, he made it almost to the end of the encounter both times. I don't remember what triggered it, but the free attack (charge only) he had when dropping a monster was pretty cool. The shift through an enemy saved his butt a couple of times. Another cool trick for the Barbarian. The 3[W] encounter was appropriate for his class. I didn't think so when I first read it, but it worked well concerning the class and the -4 penalty to AC balances it out well.
Overall, I felt the damage dealt was appropriate for his class, played the "raging" get into melee part well, good addition to the party (must have at least one healer though or he'll probably go down fast), the low AC helps keep him balanced, the abilities I saw last night fit his class well and he was fun to watch. I think he'll be one of the better characters to play/watch and have in a party.
I hope this helped somewhat. I might just roll me up one to try. One of the few characters in 4e that still has that "I might die" fear factor. It makes you think a little more. | | | |
| Lord_rock Underboss
 2045 Posts



 Portland OR
 | | 11/09/2008 1:05 PM |
| | Sounds like a blast really. Can't wait to see the full class. I might just make one to substitute the ranger I played for Delve night. | | Rock Bottom Pricing: Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
| OhGodtheRats Warrior
 200 Posts



 | | 12/01/2008 9:23 AM |
| Oh, just noticed this thread....:raises hand: My experiences:
I play a Gnoll Barbarian in the LFR, just about level 4 these days. The Gnoll Choice was partially roleplaying (I play an Albino Gnoll Diplomat from Durpar) but Racially it works out...Perception stacking, a racial Ferocious Charge ability that works with Howling Strike, +2 Damage when a target is next to 2 allies, +2 Damage while I'm bloodied, Speed 7.....combined with RageBlood Barbarian stuff and it all comes together for a fun package. It's not Optimization board fun, but it does lend itself for interesting play.
In response to the Barbarian dropping in the post above....the same thing happened to me in the first few encounters. You'd think with an At-Will power that encourages you to Charge you should be doing that...but unless you're really lucky with killing things and generating Temp Hit Points (which I no longer count on) being front line and top of the initiative means you get the attention of everything and you don't want that. The playstyle I've settled in with the Barbarian after 10 or so adventures is a hit and run theme...Howling Strike is awesome for the extra D6, but don't underestimate the Pressing Strike at-will power. The ability to Shift twice before you attack plus the ability to shift THROUGH enemies means that even ifyou're surrounded you can simply shift away...and if an ally is nearby you can shift through the enemy and get/give flanking without any trouble. With a little care, I've played the Barbarian in a few adventures were our party was lacking a Leader.
The Swift Charge (free charge after you kill something) is a phenomenal ability...my Barbarian Multiclassed into Infernal Warlock...and with Otherwind Stride I can blast minions, teleport 5 squares, and as long as something died I can Charge/Howling strike something that survived the Blast. Using it normally, though, really lets you close the distance.
I chose Swift Panther rage for the ability to shift 2 squares as a move action. This combined with Pressing Strike means that I can Shift Twice to get to the Big enemy as part of the attack and then as my move action I can doubleshift away. This has kept my Barbarian alive against some Ogres, a Gelatinous Cube, and most importantly, Swarms who do horrible damage when you activate next to them.
My Feats: Weapon Proficiency Executioner's Ax...the D12 damage with the Brutal 2 (reroll the damage if you roll a 1 or a 2 after a hit until it's something higher) means he hits hard. The other feat Powerful Charge (+2 damage on Charge) definitely is going to make Howling Strike even scarier. My actual level 2 & 4 Feats are Multiclass Warlock & Multiclass Encounter: Otherwind Stride.
All in all, the Barbarian isn't overpowered....the insanely low AC really balances most of the arguments I've heard criticizing his output. If you don't play smart you will get smashed. Well, you could also play with a couple of Clerics, but, well, You know what I mean. And there you go. Sharing means caring! -Jared | | | |
| Lord_rock Underboss
 2045 Posts



 Portland OR
 | | 12/02/2008 5:44 PM |
| So how does the barbarian stand up to the battlerager? Personally the battlerager even as a defender seems more barbarian to me. Obviously we've seen half the barbarian options so the good stuff could still be hiding but the battlerager does great DMG and is hard as all hell to bring down. I imagine the barbarian getting some nifty tricks in primal powersin a year and a half (assuming we're not on to 5th edition by then)...
I might give it a shot when the book comes out but the dwarf battlerager seems just as destructive and recless and tough to bring down (more like 3e barbarians).
Anything cool about Druids yet? | | Rock Bottom Pricing: Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
| OhGodtheRats Warrior
 200 Posts



 | | 12/03/2008 2:46 AM |
| In regard to the BattleRager:
I haven't seen a Battlerager in play yet. I know they can't do what my Barbarian's done but what they do do is similar/if not better than one (and only one) of my class features. I still think I prefer the barbarian....the powers are more interesting and some of them are even useful as part of Skill Challenges. I know that doesn't mean much to some people but Great Leap has saved my butt many, many times already. And I look forward to the "create difficult terrain" stomp power. I don't know...I feel the final barbarian package is going to be like most of the strikers...a fair amount of damage and a lot of utility powers that Powergamers aren't interested in. But I totally see the Battlerager as being a good substitute for an older player wanting to return to their Ye Olde D&D Barbarian theme.
Oh and I have to disagree with you....the 4th Edition Barbarian is INFINITELY more reckless than the Battlerager. The Battlerager has more AC and Temporary Hit points (and more Utility powers to keep him alive) while the Barbarian....doesn't. You can play your Battlerager recklessly, but the chances of him meeting a horrible fate are slim compared to your standard Barbarian's chance to kiss oblivion by doing the same stuff. I think it's easier to just charge in as a BattleRager, but since that was a legit strategy for Fighters already (I played a Warforged Figher in KotShadowfell), I don't see the Battlerager being any more reckless than a normal fighter...he doesn't have any flaws to balance his already solid defensive role. Fighters are awesome, Battleragers make fighters even better but I still don't think they qualify as a striker just yet.
As for the Druid: Ask me later. I'm trying one out this weekend (or seeing one in play if my friend calls it). It's nice to see that "minion killing" is definitely part of the Controller's package, meaning the Swordmage is definitely fulfilling that aspect of the Controller vibe. I'm not sure I'm cool with the Shapeshifting stuff....I plan on making a mostly Human Druid...lots of tactical range stuff. I'm curious to see how the Beast form works out in practice. I'm tempted to make a Warforged Druid, if only for the ability to transform into a Iron Defender mini.
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| Lord_rock Underboss
 2045 Posts



 Portland OR
 | | 12/03/2008 1:00 PM |
| My point about being more reckless is that the battlerager can be more reckless and survive just based on ac an hp. Some of the battlerager powers grant your opponent bonuses or attacks (I think, we moved this weekend and books are packed away) which lends a more reckless feel too. Hey are still both viable options and for myself I'll be playing a battlerager when I want to play a "barbarian" for the immediate future.
Let us know how the Druid goes, I havn't seen it yet. And the idea of a warforged shifting into iron defender form is priceless!
So charging, hard hitting, fragile, utility- go barbarian And reliable DMG, tough as nails, punishing strikes- go battlrager | | Rock Bottom Pricing: Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
| OhGodtheRats Warrior
 200 Posts



 | | 12/03/2008 5:10 PM |
| Yeah, I think we all agree. I still stand by the fact that you could play a normal fighter and still live off AC & HP and still be reckless, but you've got a point. Fighters are very solid...and even the Martial Power book has the picture of the Frenzied Berserker as a Fighter Paragon Path. Just spotted that tonight. So yeah, I actually think the battlerager was MEANT to be the 3.5 Barbarian in 4th edition. But I will say that the battlerager just supplements a fighter. Since there are no Battlerager specific powers and any type of fighter can take them with equal effectiveness (since the Fighter Class is weapon-centric while many other classes (Strikers mostly) are Class option-centric), I'd still say it makes the Fighter Class in general "feel" more like a Barbarian...without the penalty of being a striker defense-wise.
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| wicked cool Underboss
 2151 Posts




 | | 12/05/2008 7:04 AM |
| sorry cant resit on this one. Warforged druid about to wildshape "transform and roll out". Grimlock the warforged druid/warlock  | | The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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